The Karl Stefanovic Show

00:04 Tonight on the show, Pauline Hanson does not hold back, calling Chris Bowen a bloody peanut, and goes a little further than that, and calls Tony Burke a deadbeat, and reckons the ABC should be shut down. Speaking of the ABC, they've apologized to Gina Ryanhart, admitting they got it wrong, but their own ombudsman says they did nothing wrong. 00:27 make sense of all of that. And elbows in strife over that bizarre melons comment about the Japanese PM with calls to apologise to her over this remark. Got a couple of melons. 00:38 She just came in looking like Pamela Anderson. 00:41 By the way, does anyone know how much Labour raked in at that Point Piper fundraiser? Just asking. We still don't know, do we? Why not? Why has that story completely disappeared? Anyhow, have you ever actually looked at where your tax goes? One of our viewers, a legend from the Defence Force, emailed us his tax bill recently. Nearly a third of his tax bill went to welfare. Economist Derek Francis joins us to explain. And Mark Latham is in the house. He's got plenty to say about One Nation and the melons. 01:14 Let's get things started right now with Pauline Hanson. We're in Mount Isa and we have a very special interview with Pauline Hanson. You won't believe what she says about Chris Bowen and some of the Albanese government. 01:29 It is unbelievable. It kind of did shock me, but she's a legend in these parts. And it's all coming up, plus all the colour and excitement of the Mount Isa Rodeo. It's unreal up here. 01:53 Pauline Hanson, welcome to God's country. 01:56 Isn't it? I know, it's fantastic, isn't it? If you've never been to Mount Isa rodeo, you've got to come. It's great. 02:03 It is so good. And even just getting out of the city, the air is different, the people are different. Someone just said to me before, you know what, Carlos, there's only two states you need to be in, Queensland and Pissed. 02:19 But that's the kind of... 02:20 This is the Australian culture. And, you know, these kids are not in colour with the kids. You can't have kids climbing monkey bars and all the rest of it. You should have seen... Did you see the kids down there before on the bucking balls? I know. Yeah, live balls. They were great. 02:35 We got some great vision of this 10-year-old coming, you know, on the back of a baby, whatever they call it. I don't know what they're called. Anyway, off he goes. And I said, mate, how long have you been doing this since I was five? 02:47 I said, do you get scared? Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes they can be a bit rough and you land a bit rough, but you see the kids everywhere. You know, they're on their own. They're having a great time. They love it. 02:56 They're absolutely loving it. So stop putting your kids in cotton wool and actually let them enjoy life. This is the Australian culture and it's very unusual. I had a guy from France come up to me and he said, you know, I report from France. He said, what would you tell the French people coming here? I said, they really want an Aussie experience. Come out here to the Mount Isa Rodeo. 03:18 I love it. And Pauline Hans is out here in the Karl Stefanovic show. So what more could you want? All right, it's been a big week, huh? 03:25 Yeah. 03:26 Yeah, how are you feeling after what transpired, a lot of headlines again? 03:30 Well, it is, especially in Victoria. So being down there and wanting our candidates in Victoria, we're going to slowly roll them out and our policies for Victoria. People are really fed up. Doesn't matter where I went. Even overseas, mind you, I was pulled up. A lot of people from Melbourne, especially, are saying, we've had a gutful, we want change in Victoria. People are screaming out for it. 03:50 All right, you're going to be able to fill every one of those seats, do you think, with a candidate? 03:55 Yeah, we've got the candidates for all that. 03:56 It's on like Donkey Kong down there. 03:59 How do you think you're going to go? 04:02 I think we'll do quite well. I think we will pick up seats, especially in the upper house. They've done away with that preference system where the political parties control preferences now. They belong to the voter. I think that's going to make a big difference as well. People want change. They're fed up with the Labor Party. They don't have a lot of confidence in the Liberals either. 04:23 Yeah, that's true. All right, you also copped a bit of heat for excluding... 04:27 certain journos, The Guardian, ABC. 04:31 Are you going to open that up, especially as we near towards an election? 04:35 Carl, I talk to the ABC in rural and regional areas. Get rid of the woke agenda, those wankers in the cities that won't give me a fair go. People say it's not democracy. Well, where's your fair and unbiased reporting on me? Where's your democracy there? So it's two-way street. You want to keep bashing me around. You want to keep telling me lies. Don't expect me to talk to you. I'm not interested. 05:01 And when they say that it's censorship, 05:04 What, who's censorship? 05:06 That you're censoring the media coming into your press conferences? I mean, can you BPM if you exclude certain people? 05:15 I don't care. I really don't care. I'll go back to... This is nothing new for me. In 1996, I banned them for nine months, the ABC. So... 05:26 Go and look at it. No one gave me a rule book that I had to talk to them. If you want to give fair and just reporting on me, state the full facts, state my comments in full context. As one of them, she said, oh, well, voting for One Nation, you've just legitimised them. Excuse me, I'm a political party. And then in your educational system, they're teaching these kids about One Nation being this racist party. What a load of rubbish. The ideology they're teaching these kids is wrong. 05:57 Well, the boss of the ABC came out when I got in trouble and sacked and said, well, Carl doesn't obviously have any standards. That's coming from Hugh Marks. 06:07 No standards, yeah. I blame the coalition. I tried to get fair and balanced in their charter years ago. The coalition promised me they would do it, and I don't think it ever happened. So they've failed the people of Australia, and paying them $1.2, $1.3 billion a year, Shut them down. They can go to subscriptions. See how good you are. 06:28 All right, see if they can come. I mean, it's not easy out there on the road being an independent broadcaster. 06:34 As you can see with my vast team. 06:36 Hey, guys, keep it down a bit over there, please. 06:38 I'm doing poorly enhanced than that is. 06:41 Oh, we won't go there. Thank you, ladies. You know, everywhere we travel with The Karl Stefanovic Show, we hear the same thing. It's hard to employ people in Australia. It's way too hard. Rising costs, thousands of pages of fair work rules, edge cases everywhere. They're like the flies. It's so annoying. Even trying to do the right thing, you're one step away from doing the wrong thing, and who pays for it? No wonder people are fed up. It's almost like they don't want you to hire anyone anymore. That's why I like what the team at Tanda has created. 07:13 Aussie built software that handles all of that complexity, rostering, payroll, HR, and fair work compliance. Tanda takes care of it all and makes it easier to be an employer. So if you've got employees, check them out at tanda.com.au. You won't regret it. Sorry, we don't have crowd control, nothing. It's wild here at Mount Isa. I wanted to ask you, it's occurred to me over the last couple of months how resilient you are. 07:49 Whether people like you, load you, whatever it is, you still have to wake up in the morning and do your thing, but you face enormous obstacles and criticism, and it's relentless. How have you done that? Because I'm sure there are people out there who have lots going on in their lives and it's all relative, they'll say it. But I will say as a person in the media who's been through a bit, and I don't expect people to feel sorry for me at all, they don't want that. 08:14 and I don't care for that, but you wake up every morning and you cop it. Do sometimes you want to curl up in a ball and cry and go to sleep and not have to do it? 08:24 Oh, I've had no tough moments, for all means, but who hasn't? It doesn't matter whether you're a mum or a dad, you know, with your kids and going through, you know, with your own children or whether you're running business and you have your ups and downs of business. It's about everyone has to find their inner strength and, you know, why are you here? Why are you doing it? 08:44 And, Carl, I think that I've... Nowadays, I feel vindicated. The Australian people, a lot of people have actually woken up, and the support that they've given me gives me more inner strength. And the people who want change... You know, I chose to be a Member of Parliament. I chose to be a politician. And I thank the people for their vote. But to me, that brings responsibility as well. So I keep saying to a lot of people, it's not an easy game being in politics. You have to be, you know... I'm a politician of conviction. And if you're not prepared to stand up and be yourself and speak up for the people, then get the hell out of it. 09:19 Because if it gets too hot in the kitchen, it's not for you. 09:24 That's so interesting you say that. It's a great answer. But, you know, I know when I'm absolutely committed to something that I can't ever bow. I will just keep marching on and rolling on. But... 09:40 It's another thing, sometimes it's like so relentless, you can't see a way out. How did you find your inner strength? And what does that look like for someone out there who might be watching? 09:49 Well, when you grow up with six brothers and sisters and you see the work ethic that I saw in my mother and my father, it gives you the strength that no one owes me anything. And I have to be responsive to my own actions. And that's what we're losing in our society these days. Everyone wants to play the victim. Well, you're not the victim. You've made yourself the victim. So I won't play the victim card. And while I've still got my mental capacity and I have the strength, which I have, and I keep good health, I'll keep going. 10:23 as long as the people want me there, and it does come down to the people. So it's not for every day. You know, till the day I die, you won't be carrying me out of a box in that place, that's for sure. So I know when to call it quits, and unlike some other politicians I see in there, and you know when to say, hey, it's time to move on, leave it to the younger generation to carry on. 10:43 So how long can you... 10:45 can you be in the shit fight for? 10:47 Well, it is. Every day you wake up, what's the next, you know, shit fight that I'm going to be in and trying to solve the problems and issues or everyone's having a go at me or trying to drag me down the, you know, attack my credibility or that of the party. It's forever a battle. But like I said, a lot of this is just words. And I don't care what they say. Most of these people, I have no time. I have no respect for them. And there's two on the floor of parliament that will call out. 11:19 Lydia Thorpe and Maureen Fruke. Got absolutely no time for them whatsoever. So do you think I care what those people say? I'll listen to people who care about whether I've got a roof over my head, food on my table, or really care about me. 11:33 and i noticed this week you picked you didn't mind picking a fight with the smh over the motel room and i think the paul sakala article i can't believe that i read that rubbish and um i said what's it to do with you no cost to the taxpayer go and ask all the other five politicians that were over there Go and ask them who paid for their motel rooms. What is wrong with you people? Wake up, you bloody fools. There's more important things happening in our country with costly than people living in their cars and all the rest of it. But you've got to actually go after me. You're absolute fools. 12:04 This is what's building, though. You can feel it. You can see it. You are a threat. 12:11 You are a threat to them now more than you ever have been. You're ahead in the polls. There is a possibility that you'll be Prime Minister. 12:19 Look, that's further down the track, Carl. I don't know. And I've got to... My main aim is getting the right people around me that can win their seats to make a difference to the country and people out there. Is that hard? Yes. No, we've got so many people now coming aboard with the credentials to actually do a great job. and it's not about, OK, we've never done it before. Your departments and your heads don't change. What changes is that if we have the balanced power in there, or we are government, we then change the legislation, we introduce it to the floor of parliament, then I'll go to the bureaucrats and say, this is it, this is the laws, this is what you will implement. 12:53 Not the other way around. 12:55 like the thavian society kind of thing no i won't be having them telling telling us what to do or how to run this country i want to pull it out of the at the bloody mess that we're in now i want to give back people in this country prosperity you know utilize and get people out of their cars and families and the poverty that children have there's so much to be done here i don't want the you know the division that's happened with the voice of parliament get rid of bloody peanut Chris Bowen with his, you know, climate change crap that he keeps going on about, destroying trend, you know, farming sectors that need a helping hand. 13:32 Oh, Carl, it just goes on and on. 13:34 We've been doing that story in that renewable energies are in central Queensland and in Skow and in Victoria and it's everywhere now. 13:43 And it's dividing communities. Well, you know this, there's four and a half thousand wind turbines now and they want to extend it out to 31,000. If they get their chance in Tasmania, you're going to destroy that state completely with the number they want to put up theirs. 13:57 Everything they say, everything is about diversity, but for me, it's about division. All I'm seeing out there is division. So even with renewables, the rollout, it's dividing the farming sector. And at the end of the day, we are 1% of global emissions. Is that worth destroying our ag sector? I mean, I don't... 14:18 But they jumped on this bandwagon, they've gone ahead with it, and the money they have invested in it in propping up these international companies, they can't get out of it now at all. So Bowen is travelling around the world, costed the taxpayer $345,000, that he's pushing his own agenda. I've never met anyone I think is as incompetent as what that man is. He's hopeless, absolutely hopeless. 14:43 Tell us what you really think about Chris Bowen. 14:48 I am on camera here, so I do have to control my views. But he's the biggest wanker. He really is in the Albanese government. 15:01 And there's him, Tony Burke, and, of course, our Prime Minister. Honestly, I've never met so many deadbeats who have no idea about what is happening in this country with the policies they keep pushing, which is destroying our nation. 15:18 So you're not holding back, you're not going anywhere, you're as resilient a person as I've ever met, truthfully. 15:27 And that says a lot about you, your character. And again, people can like you, loathe you, whatever it is, you keep going. 15:35 So what are the next months look like for you? 15:40 Absolutely. It's going to be flat out. Like I said, we're now looking at the next election is the by-election Secret Harbour in WA. 15:52 We're doing really well over there. People want to oust the entrenched Labor Party out of that seat, so we'll see what happens there. The next big election is Victoria. So we're really targeting Victorian state election. They want change down there. The increasing debt they're in, the corruption that's happened in that state, you've got the crime that's happened. If you've got kids wielding machetes in shopping centres, it is ridiculous where it's at. The high tax is killing that state. You've got an increase in housing, but it's only been by 5%, yet your land tax has gone up 300%. 16:28 They're kind of people. 16:30 You would have seen, I know you got back from London and you went to Luton and you saw, you know, on the ground there what was happening. You saw, would have seen the last week, Rupert Lowe has reached out to Nigel Farage to maybe form some sort of coalition, whether that works or not. I don't know, but you can see them trying to work on something and the Tories are, you know, but they still had a majority of the seats on the right side of politics. So is there a way of manoeuvring it here? Because the most common thing that people say to me is, and I was in Rocky for this net zero thing, and they will say to Matt Canavan, you've got to get together with these guys. 17:07 Everyone's got to get together with Pauline. 17:10 Is there a way? What does that look like even at this point? Or is it just too early? 17:14 When you look at Nigel Farage and Rupert Lowe, they have a different voting system to us. It's first past the post. So if they're going to compete against each other instead of combining the vote, they could actually hand the party to the Labor Party or to the Conservatives side of politics. We've got a different system here in Australia. Carla made it quite clear I'm not going to go into a coalition with the Liberal National Party. I've seen the National Party being suppressed, can't represent the rural and regional areas, what they started out to do. 17:49 So they've become the tail on the dog of the Liberal Party. I'm not going to become that. I'll work with them. We can put our numbers together and we can actually oust the Labor Party. But I'm not going to be in their cabinet meetings and told to shut down. I can't have an opinion because They're pretty much inside, I support with a lot. But during the years that we had Turnbull and Morrison, we had the balanced power, the shared balanced power there. We actually improved a lot of their legislation, especially the ABCC bill. 18:22 So I'm not going to be shut down. 18:24 All right, let's talk about something nice and light. 18:28 What do you love about these sort of places? I mean, where's the orange hat from? Oh, it's a special One Nation SK, is it? 18:35 No, no, this is Kidman. Yeah. This is Kidman. So it's Kidman hat. Yeah. So it's fantastic, and I wear it pride. I've had so many compliments about it, but the orange is One Nation. That's why. So no, wear it pride. 18:52 And you walk around here. Do you like being in the country, getting dressed up in the country outfits and all that? Yes. 18:57 I love wearing my jeans, my boots, and that's great. Get out of the heels. I love getting out of the heels. But I feel very comfortable here. The people here are very down to earth, and there's no heirs and graces here. They're just, you know, fair-income Aussie people who love to have a beer with you, have a drink, and just talk down to earth instead of... Yeah, it's nice. Yeah, you don't have the beer as it goes on. 19:22 It's nice. I love it. What about you? You and I had the Fred Brophy tent last night. It's unbelievable. Everyone should see it. It's like those things are going to be gone from Australia soon. 19:35 Well, they will be. You know, he's not allowed to go anywhere else in the country. Only Queen's going to allow him to have it. And I was speaking to the deputy premier before and I said, you cannot ever get rid of Fred Brophy. He's nowhere in the wide world. He said, we'll keep it going. That's good news. But I feel there's no one coming through after Fred when he's finished. He's been, I think it's 45 years he's been in it. He's doing a fantastic job. But the tent's always full. And I've been going to them, oh, golly, since about 2015, that first one. And between you and I, they had me up quite a few times as card girls. 20:09 And thus, yeah, I know. 20:12 And I'm thinking of my age and all the rest of it. You'd be popular in there, though. Yeah. Well, actually, I said last night, I said, I'm not going to be a card girl. Don't come anywhere near me. I'm not doing it. So I drew the line last night. I thought, no. 20:29 Pauline, it's wonderful to talk with you. Have a wonderful time, Mount Isa, and all the very best for the future. Appreciate you being on the Carl Stappanage. 20:37 Thanks for having me on, Carl. Thanks. 20:40 Pauline Hanson in Mount Isa, and what a fantastic time it was too. All right, now Mark Latham enters the House, and he's always got plenty to say about One Nation, the Australian Government, and, of course, the PM's trouble and strife with the Japanese Prime Minister. Here's Mark. Mark, good to talk with you. We've just heard from Pauline Hanson on the show by laying it out, calling Chris Bowen a whole bunch of fantastic names that I think a lot of Australians agree with. 21:12 But they are tracking a right One Nation. What do you put that down to? 21:15 Well, I think what we've seen over the last 20 years, Carl, is that governments, federal and state, Labor and Liberal have failed to solve major problems. 21:22 productivity, the cost of living, interest rates, inflation, school results, hospital waiting lists, electricity prices. You know, you can't name in the last 20 years, basically since the Howard government left, an area where government has done something positive, solved a big problem that affects people in their everyday life. So I don't think there's any great love affair out there with Pauline, who's been around even longer than you and me. but it's more that if the major parties are failing, the mood is angry among the public, the mood is full of discontent, and they want a third force to shake up the Labor-Liberal duopoly, turn them upside down, kick them up the arse, send them a big message, You haven't been doing the job for 20 years and we want someone to come in and shake up the system. 22:08 And they know Pauline, the brand name is Strong. They know that she's a fighter, that she'll get in there and shake something up. It might be a complete disaster. But the public want the system turned upside down and they're looking to One Nation to do it. So I think that explains this fascinating period over the last 12 months where Australian politics out of nowhere seemingly has become a three-cornered contest. 22:31 Do you think it translates to the box office? 22:34 Well, it did to some extent in South Australia. It certainly did in the Farrah by-election. One Nation has a long way to go because obviously in the white heat of a federal election campaign over six weeks, there's a lot of scrutiny about policy. 22:47 Are their economic policies going to do the job? Can they really do something about cost of living? There's some great symbolic things out there about we're overdoing welcome to country and there's too much political correctness, too much cancel culture, we need more freedom of speech. One Nation will bank a lot of votes on those issues, but ultimately, federal elections are determined on the economy. In the past, Pauline's had some pretty strange economic policies like flat tax and spending policies that would send the country broke, quite frankly, 5% of GDP on defence spending and on it goes. 23:20 So one nation has to do a lot of work on policy in preparation for the federal election campaign. But if they do that well, the next election will be a three-cornered contest and be more fascinating than anything we've seen in Australia for 100 years. 23:34 I agree with you completely. And certainly where I've been over the last couple of months, six months or so, they are gathering. I mean, there's talk about some sort of big kumbaya with the coalition and One Nation. I just don't know how that goes down. 23:50 No, well, it doesn't really. If you're a Liberal or National Party member in a marginal seat, One Nation can tip you out, can take you out of Parliament, put you down to Centrelink. which is what happened to the Liberals in the Farrah by-election. So Kumbaya is media talk. In practice, no Liberal or National Party MP threatened by One Nation thinks that playing footsies with them, singing songs with them, swapping preference with them, Talking about some loose coalition with them is feasible because it's do or die. 24:20 They want to take my seat. I want to beat them. And I think that three-cornered contest will unfold that way. And also in the Hunter Valley, for example, One Nation will be on the warpath to take Labor Party seats. Quite rightly so, given the sellout on energy policies in the Hunter Valley. 24:36 Well, the energy policies everywhere, my friend, in Victoria, down in Tassie, up into that renewable energy zone in central Queensland. I mean, it's all pretty nasty if you're on the ground up there and people are pretty frustrated and it's dividing communities. There's no doubt about that. Economically, there's a lot to attack on the government and I just wonder how The Liberal National Party aren't making more inroads. There is material everywhere. I mean, just in the last couple of days, it's $4 billion a year lost to fraud. $4 billion in the NDIS alone. 25:08 $4 billion to fraud. 25:10 Yeah, well, it's been a fraudster's picnic for years now, hasn't it, the NDIS? I mean, Carl, it's misnamed as an insurance scheme because it's the only one in the world where you don't pay a premium to be part of it, and if you make a claim, you don't pay in excess. So automatically, there's no price or cost control in the NDIS. You've had providers who've been providing services for golf lessons, wellbeing sessions, mowing your lawn. Escorts have come in to provide some of the disabled with a little bit of comfort. 25:42 They might need it, but it's at the public expense. So no cost control. And the numbers are extraordinary. We're now spending close to $50 billion a year on the NDIS as a nation, which is catching up to our defence budget. You know, sort of like, I don't worry about China. We're spending $50 billion a year on this so-called insurance scheme, only $55 billion on defence. We spend $41 on aged care. We're spending much more on NDIS than looking after the elderly in Australia, and it's also outstripping the Medicare benefits schedule. 26:15 The costs are out of control. There's no cost control mechanism. I don't believe Labor that they'll ever take people off the scheme and bring it under control that way. And some of the rorting by the providers are shameful. They should have the scrutiny on them. And I know in Western Sydney, for example, it's a running joke how you set these schemes up and overnight you'll be a millionaire. 26:35 And the unfortunate thing about this, Mark, as you would know as well, is that there are genuine carers out there. There are people who genuinely should be on it, and it's a great program, but they're just going to get taken out. 26:47 Well, there should be a real insurance scheme where there's some premium up front for belonging. Families make some self-provision for disabled children, for example. 26:56 It's not unreasonable and an excess payment as you draw down on the scheme. So you're not in there just for the rort and providers haven't got the opportunity to put up these bogus services and make a fortune out of it. And the numbers are extraordinary. We've now got 760,000 active NDIS participants in Australia and over half of them are under 18. That's what worries me the most. Parents panic. They think that because the child is a bit different, that there's a disability and they need to go into this scheme and we're teaching young people to be welfare dependent rather than getting out there and work. 27:31 You know, I say to parents, just because a child's a little bit different can actually be a good thing. It can be a positive. Difference is not a sign of a problem. And cultivating difference in a positive way, some of these kids can streak ahead and they don't need to be labelled disabled. They don't need to be on welfare. They can be out there working and grow the economy. 27:50 I mean, I wonder how many migrants too have wedged themselves onto that. And, you know, that made some news this week in terms of the numbers coming in. 27:59 I think, you know, the million migrant number is one that everyone's seizing upon. 28:05 What's your take on what's the right number? 28:09 Well, the right number is probably at the historic average, which is a lot lower than a million. 28:14 It's closer to trying to grow the population that's manageable, 100,000, 200,000 a year in overall terms. And, of course, you see this influx of big migration numbers. People know it adds to the housing affordability crisis. Where is everyone going to live? 28:31 It does take some Australian jobs, the number of students here on visas and they bring in their family as well. It's like a de facto family reunion scheme. But I think the big thing that's driving the support for One Nation and unhappiness about the migration scheme, people are just seeing literally the face of their suburb change very quickly. And it's not necessarily racism or xenophobia, it's more we've had traditions here I like this suburb, are these changes happening fast going to be good or bad? 29:02 And people just got this feeling of being unsettled by the rapid changing face of their local area, particularly here in Sydney, also Melbourne. And I think that feeling of being unsettled, uncertainty, insecurity is driving a backlash against the size of the immigration program. On economic terms, it should be scaled back. And I think on social and cultural terms, for stability, it should be scaled back as well. 29:28 I reckon it'll be fascinating, not that I normally, I'm not sure whether you get into it, but the census should be pretty interesting about numbers and where Australia's at. 29:38 Yeah, well, I saw a post there from one of the Muslim groups saying, make sure you declare yourself to be Islamic. 29:44 I'm not too sure that's what the census is designed to do. It's an honest assessment of your different characteristics, including religion. I don't see the Catholic Church putting one out to say, everyone, make sure you identify believing in the Christian God. 29:58 So there's some groups out there. It's like push polling, isn't it? Push census. So hopefully the data is reliable. We'll find out down the track. 30:07 All right. Before we go, my friend, I did want to talk to you. I know you're a busy man. I wanted to talk to you about the Prime Minister. I mean, having been someone that has got yourself in a few tricky situations. Come on, Carl. 30:19 This is pot and kettle, mate. Pot and kettle. Give me a break. 30:27 We've got to laugh. 30:28 Let me declare, I too have interviewed Tommy Robinson in the past and lived to tell the tale. So it was absurd what happened to you at nine. I mean, seriously. But anyway, both you and I had the odd little run in with controversy. That much is true. 30:43 I'm still alive. I'm still kicking and I've still got a voice. Just. So what do you make about the diplomatic hoo-ha that's happening right now between Japan and Australia and the PM? I mean, he's got himself into a bit of a stink, I reckon. 30:59 Well, I've got to say the so-called comedian Nikki Osmond, looking at the skit, I thought she was as funny as a burning orphanage. 31:07 And I think Elbow picked the wrong person. I think it would have got a lot more humour out of you and me than poor old Nicky. And he got tangled up with saying effectively a married man wanting to bonk Kylie Minogue. Well, you might think that, but you'd never say it as Prime Minister. And I think to the category with the Japanese Prime Minister and the melons. because the background is that Australia lifted the ban on these crown melons, which are pretty expensive. I've never had a $250 melon, but Albo was talking about melons of a different kind, and when unfunny burning orphanage Nicky mentioned Pamela Anderson in the context that obviously they're talking about breasts, Pamela's main characteristic publicly, then Albo needed to halt the interview at that point and say, no, we're not talking about that, that's disrespectful to the female Japanese Prime Minister. 31:53 Instead, he's now got... raging diplomatic incident on his hands where a former Japanese ambassador has come out and said a full apology is needed and this sort of speculation about the breasts of a Japanese Prime Minister is out of line. 32:09 You know it would have been I think an ideal opportunity for Tanya Plibersek to get some back on elbow but she resisted the temptation. 32:18 Well, there's so much hypocrisy, isn't there? Look at what happened with Gina Reinhart, that disgraceful, again, an unfunny skit on the ABC, poking a stick up, Gina's behind. I mean, there's nothing funny about that. And for left-wing Labour women, who basically, I had some experience with this myself last year, any man accused of anything who's right of centre, they automatically convict you and condemn you publicly, Plibersek, Provides a leave pass, even a hall pass to people or old mate Albo in this particular instance, trying to pretend they were talking about the fruit melon, not the other melon, that Albo and Nicky Osborne were obviously referring to. 33:00 So the hypocrisy of the left wing Labor women is just disgusting. I find it appalling. 33:06 What do you think of Albo, how he's tracking at the moment? I mean, it looks like he's under a bit of pressure from all sides. 33:11 Well, his lasting achievement, if you want to call it that, as Prime Minister, is to preside over the rise of a three-cornered contest. He has ended the two-party system in Australia through the accumulation of government not solving problems. And his neglect of economic productivity, economic growth, budget management in particular, stands him condemned. So I think domestically he's been an awful Prime Minister. But I will say internationally I think he's been strong... in the Pacific, in using rugby league and some other soft diplomacy, the aid budget, to fight back and push back against the rise of China. 33:46 So I think in making Australia more secure, he's been quite good, but on the economic and social front domestically, he goes as well as Nicky Osborne does at comedy. 33:59 Mark Latham. Which ain't much. 34:02 Good to talk with you, mate. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Carl. 34:06 And finally, with the government pleased as punch that your property prices are going down, we thought we'd weigh into Derek Francis now. Plus, we heard from a Defence Force legend about his tax and where it all goes. This is an interesting one. Here's Derek. Hey, Derek, great to see you again. Look, there's plenty happening, but I wanted to start with this today, if I can. So this ADF soldier rode into the show this week after opening his ATO tax receipt, and he was just blown away. 34:36 30% of his hard-earned tax dollars went straight into welfare, while essentially infrastructure and housing got absolute peanuts. You've had a look at those numbers. 34:47 What can you tell us about that, but also what can we glean from our own? 34:53 Well, he's actually right, but it's worse than what he thinks. About 40% of our total expenditure goes into what you call the welfare bucket or redistribution. 35:04 So the two biggest parts of that, welfare or what I call redistribution, it used to run at about 8% of the GDP of the economy. And that's actually gone up now to 11% of the economy. 35:18 And the two biggest components of that are aged care expenditure, which is about 68 billion a year. But the biggest growth item is the NDIS. And that's sort of, if you go back 10 or 15 years, that's come from nothing. And it's now averaging 53 billion a year. It's gone, to give you an idea of those numbers, it's gone from 2021, it's gone from 23 billion a year in 2021 up to 51 billion a year now. So that's growing at 17% per annum. Those two items alone make up about 70% of what your veteran describes as the welfare payments. 35:56 And I think that he was blown away by that and it made him pretty angry. Does he have a right to be? 36:03 I guess the whole thing is we don't know what's in it. We don't know how it's broken up. And when you see it broken up like that, it does give you an insight into what's going on. But that's only part of the story. 36:19 Look, he's got every right to be angry. I think most Australians have every right to be angry because... I would say the quality of the spend of government has significantly declined, especially in the last five years, but it's been a long run trend. There's nothing wrong with taxation and spending so long as the spending's put into what I call productive infrastructure. So if you build a rail line that allows you to ship goods more efficiently, or if you build a new port or roads, et cetera. 36:52 But if you actually look at the proportion of GDP that's been spent on that, over the long term, that's decreased from 3% to 2.5%. 37:02 And then, as I said, there's been a massive rise in what I call this redistribution agenda. The government spend doesn't create wealth, it just takes from someone and gives to someone else. And that's gone up from 8% of GDP to about 11% of GDP. 37:16 There are various reasons for it. I mean, we do want to be an equitable society and look after the people that are disadvantaged, but most of that expenditure doesn't actually increase the productive capacity of the economy. And that's why the OECD has found that our growth has actually stalled and we're probably one of the worst performers of any country. What the OECD found is in the last five years, average income across the world has averagely risen by 5%, but we've gone backwards on average by 5%. 37:49 So the swing is about 10%. 37:51 And it's because, as I said, the government's not pursuing what I call a growth agenda, it's pursuing a redistribution agenda. It's sort of saying, lets everyone that sort of has been successful, let's try and think of new ways to tax them and how to tax them and then just redistribute it sort of fairly arbitrarily. And the actual quality of these spend, there's no sort of cost benefit analysis of it or there's no accounting for it. I'll give you just one small item, this irks me the most, but in the most recent budget, four billion was set aside for the Melbourne, the Cheltenham to Box Hill rail loop in Melbourne. 38:29 Now every cost benefit analysis has been done of that. It shows that it's an absolute dog of a project. At best it's got a benefit cost ratio of about 0.5 and 15% of that spending goes straight to CFMEU corruption to let the build go ahead. They have to be paid 15%. So 600 million is immediately wasted on that. 38:48 Even the Victorian Premier now is doing a review of it, because he knows it's a dog as well, but the federal government just thinks, oh, let's just spend it on all this stuff, spend it on stuff that's sort of straight, what I'd call also straight bribing people to vote for them in the election. So last election they gave a 20% reduction in hex and they gave $250 off your electricity bill and stuff like that. None of that increases the productive potential of the economy or anything like that. It's all just sort of what I'd describe as exercises in vote buying, which is a poor quality of spend. 39:22 I think the veterans got every right to be angry, but I think most people have every right to be angry because we're holding Australia back significantly on what its potential could be. 39:31 And what is it this week, $4 billion a year in rorts admitted to that they know of, roughly, in the NDIS? 39:41 Well, that's at least, look, my guess is the rorts go a lot higher than that. I mean, to give you an idea, the growth in expenditure of it has been astronomical. It's gone from, as I said, $23 billion in FY21 to $51 billion. The actual growth rate in the NDI expenditure is 17% a year. Now, there aren't 17% more disabled people each year, so I would think the rorting of that is probably in the range of 30 or 40%. 40:14 The first thing is they're charging too much. As soon as someone's on the NDIS, they think, just great, oh, let's overcharge them because the government's footing the bill. But secondly, the over-servicing of people that don't necessarily have problems and or servicing them way too high on what the problems they are. And the third thing is just there's no accounting for the expenditure. I had one person, he was diagnosed with autism, and because of that, he, He lives in Sydney and he got to go on a free trip to Adelaide to watch the test cricket for five days under the NDIS. 40:45 I'm sort of thinking, well, why didn't they just take him to the cricket in Sydney? 40:50 And the shame of it all, as you'd know, Derek, is that there are people on it who need it and who have great benefit from it. And there are carers out there who do the most wonderful job and it's basically just going to stuff it up for everyone. But, Matt, I did notice too, I mean, isn't tax revenue... Tax revenue is going up, isn't it? So where's it going? 41:11 Yeah, the whole idea that they're giving tax cuts is sort of a bit of a fraud and an artifice in that each year income goes up by at least inflation, so it goes up 3%. That pushes people into higher tax brackets. 41:25 And then what they're doing is they're only giving a little bit of that back in tax cuts. So when the government first came into power, the average... income tax rate was 23%. 41:37 And right at the moment, it's 25%. So it's actually gone up 8%. So they're taking 25 cents in the dollar. And the latest budget forecast having that tax revenue increased to 29%. So on average, 29 cents in the dollar they're gonna take over the next 10 years. It's gonna slowly rise because of this bracket creep where people's wages rise and puts them into higher tax brackets. And they actually need that high, because the expenditure is a lot higher under this government than previous governments. 42:09 They actually are going to need that tax revenue to actually get the budget back into the balance. At the moment, there's a deficit of about $40 to $50 billion per year, and to get it back into some sort of neutral setting where the debt doesn't go up anymore, they're going to need that increase in tax revenue to do so. 42:29 Meantime, debt itself is nearing on a trillion, which is a terrible figure that I don't think we'll ever pay back. Certainly our kids will be left with that one, won't they? 42:42 Yeah, well, the debt at the moment's a trillion and it's forecast to go up to 1.3 trillion. But I will say that's also based on what I call extremely dubious and optimistic forecasts of what the government can do with its expenditure. 42:59 So to give you an idea of what those forecasts are based on, they have the NDRS growing, as I said, at 17% per year. All of a sudden, it's going to magically grow over the next four years at 2%. 43:09 and then 5% thereafter. I very much doubt that that's the case. And if it keeps growing the way it is, there's no way the debt's going to grow to something like 1.5 trillion. The current interest bill is about $40 billion a year just on the debt. That's predicted to grow to about $80 billion a year. Yeah, it's predicted to grow to about $80 or $90 billion, but unless they get the expenditure under control, The other unrealistic assumption they've got, you'll love this one, Carl, in their budget. 43:38 The public service, so when they got into power, the public service was $172,000. They've increased it to $215,000, so they're increasing the public service headcount by 5% a year. 43:50 But then what they've got, they've got the public service headcount magically going down from now on. It's going down to 189,000 and then back down to 172,000 over the next 10 years, which is the exact opposite of what they've historically done. Every time they've taken on more public service, I think they're mainly taking on more public service to find new ways to tax us. 44:11 Well, I mean, it's all very tragic when you say it like that, mate. 44:15 But, I mean, it is. It makes you want... I mean, I guess the... 44:19 For the common person on the street, even the notion of $1.5 trillion in debt, how does it manifest itself in our lives? Why should we be worried about it if you can't see it? 44:33 Well, it manifests itself every way. 44:37 The most immediate and obvious, as I said, is right at the moment it's $40 billion, but that's going to grow to maybe $80 or $90 billion. But the more debt the government has... means that interest rates are high because foreigners demand a higher rate of interest on the debt because they think you're a greater default risk. And that feeds through to everything in the economy. So your mortgage rates on your home loans will go up because interest rates are higher. Anyone that's trying to fund an expansion in their business through debt, the interest rates are going to be a couple of percent higher as well. 45:10 So it affects what's called the cost of capital. The cost of capital is a combination of both debt and equity. And if your debt financing is going up by 2%, it basically reduces the return on all of your investments and it basically curtails growth. There have been very few countries with high debts that all of a sudden are also high growth economies as well. they can potentially get into spirals where they have very low debt, and they eventually have to suffer the pain where they have to massively cut the government's spending and get back to private sector generating prosperity. 45:42 Well, what would be wrong with that? 45:44 Well, there's nothing wrong with it, but this government doesn't seem to understand that. I mean, to give you an idea, the public expenditure used to run at 25% of GDP. Under this government, it's running at 27.5% of GDP. 46:01 I just did a quick ratio before the show. The ratio of the government to private sector, historically it's been about 34%, and under this government it's 38%. So it's actually 13% higher the size of the public and the public spending versus the private. But that's why when the OEC did that, it's not by accident that we're not growing. Like, as I said, real incomes in Australia have gone backwards by 5%. 46:24 and the rest of the world's going up. It's not by accident, it's because they're taxing us more, but also that in itself isn't a problem, but it's the quality of their spend is atrocious. It's not doing anything to sort of increase the productive potential of the economy. I was thinking about this, if they're really serious about trying to raise our incomes and everything, we've got a huge competitive advantage in mining everything. They'd be putting in a whole lot of infrastructure in regional places so the miners could more easily get out their products. I've got one example, Olympic Dam, it's run by BHP. 46:56 It's the largest deposit of uranium, copper and gold in the world. It can supply the world with its uranium needs for the next 200 years. 47:04 At the moment, they're mining it at a rate. The Fin Review said they're mining it. It's like sucking a river through a straw. They're not mining it at all. But BHP said, well, look, we're not expanding it all in Australia anymore because we can't because the government's made it too horrendous for us with workplace laws that are adding to cost. But there's no sort of infrastructure spend because it's basically in the middle of nowhere in South Australia. But if they spent on sort of decent road and port infrastructure so they could get the goods out more efficiently... It'd be a win-win for everyone. You'd get much more employment. You'd get employment in real jobs and you'd get much higher tax revenues. 47:37 But I just don't think the government's interested in that. They're interested in what I call a short-term redistribution agenda. 47:44 Well, I was just out at Mount Isa over the weekend, and Robbie Catter was talking about the same thing, and the local mayor up there, Peter McRae, saying that, you know, look, there's $19 billion worth just sitting out there, and we should do something with it. But also, there's huge infrastructure problems. That road to Huendon's an embarrassment. I mean, these are the things. We should have our roads in Australia paved by gold now, and we just don't. So what are we going to do as a country? I mean, uranium. 48:14 It seems like a pretty significant idea, but a good one, especially for those real communities who back it, who aren't scared of it. 48:23 Uranium, to me, is the most obvious thing. So to give you an idea, we're sitting on 30% of the world's deposits, but we're only at 10% of world exports. And it's because most of the state governments have a ban on new uranium mines. We've got a couple of uranium mines that are in existence and they allow them to continue, but they've got bans on new uranium mining. makes absolutely no sense from a climate change perspective as well. 48:48 exported, if we lifted our exports to what our world share is to 30%, we'd do more for climate change by expanding uranium and nuclear power worldwide. We'd do more for climate change than if we achieved net zero tomorrow, if we expanded our uranium mining and expanded the nuclear output of other countries. 49:04 Win, win, win, win, win. 49:06 Win, win, win, win, win. 49:07 But we're sort of caught in this ideological vortex sort of 1970s, 49:15 Uranium nuclear, that's bad or something or other. It makes no sense at all when it's sort of the power source of the future or one of the power sources of the future. 49:24 In an uncertain future. Derek, always good to talk with you, mate. Thanks a lot. That's it for the show this week. Join us for another edition of the panel on Friday night. Isaac and Holly are joining us and isn't there a lot to digest? 49:38 Send us your feedback below and any questions. I look forward to seeing you on Friday night. Bye for now.